Fake GT/CS

[robert campbell]

I just read about dso 74111 gold nugget gt/cs. our dealership was dso 74 (seattle) and I remember that we made a fake gtcs for a customer (gold/gold car) after a rear end accident. I wonder if that is the same car? phred

phred,
I like you live in the Seattle area.  Bremerton.  Hope to meet you someday!  I have seen numerous Gold Nugget Specials (GNS) in our area and have seen many of their door tags.  Everyone I have seen says 741111.  I have done some research on the “1111” indicator assigned to a DSO.  It usually denoted a “special edition” car of some kind, but it does seem to be tied to the 74 DSO?

Has anyone ever seen an 1111 attached to any other DSO or special edition?

I was curious, what dealership did you work for?  My car was “supposedly” sold by Smith Gandy Ford.  I traced down the old sales manager of Smith Gandy and he is still in the Seattle area.  He says that the dealership code on my Marti report is in error and not the Smith Gandy code.  He says if there is one thing he remembers it is his dealership code.  He wrote it down daily.  In fact he started to rattle off other codes.  So I cannot be sure what dealer it came from based on the Marti report.

Anyway, was the GNS you mention in the accident and you bought GT/CS parts for it?  I would assume that if the GT/CS was the victim of the butt smooch that the majority of the fiberglass would be destroyed?  My car would be a GNS with GT/CS option added on.  If the parts to make the fake not ordered from the Ford parts system, then they would have come from a GT/CS?  A GT/CS that would have been in an accident that did not hurt any (or few) of the GT/CS exterior parts?  That would not make much sense in my mind?

This is a stretch for old guy like me, but do remember a month when this happened?  Had to ask!! 

My car is a GNS with all the factory GT/CS fiberglass (left side scoop is a repop) and the correct taillight wiring harness from front to rear with no splices.  Marchal fog lights.  It had the blackout hood in the hood turn signal indentations.  Anniversary Gold with a black vinyl top.  Deluxe interior, convenience group, and rear window defogger.

Of note they made 525 GNS’s and all were supposed to have a dash plaque as part of the package with the owner’s name.  As you know this was a Seattle area promotion.  My car, and its twin, have no evidence of this plaque that would make them complete GNS cars.

Help!!!

Rob

[J_Speegle]

The whole number is the special order number (includes the ordering district at the front - in your example 74 Seattle) This number (different from the a dealer number) was from the upper left hand corner of the order form that would spell out what was different and not part of the rpo in the order. Each production year the district would start out with 0001 and the sequential order numbers would go from there.  So your "1111" was likely used in district 74 every year but for different orders.

If there were multiple vehicles in the order they would all use the same number if equipped the same. From my understanding they needed to be similar but in some examples such as the Shelby orders the colors were not always the same though I believe for most orders they would be. The vast majority of the vehicles that were ordered using the process were things like large trucks, police cars, taxis and such. 

Not all "special editions" received special order DSO's IMHO that process was only used when a non RPO item or process was needed. We're all most likely more familiar with the usage for special order exterior paint cars. So if a dealership wanted to offer a hot pink special for Mothers Day and ordered one or one hundred cars all equipped the same and hot pink was not a regular production color they would fill out the form pay the extra $20 or so and place the order. A good example in 68 would be the Color of the Month or Color of the Rainbow promotion that was conducted in the spring to stimulate the typical sluggish spring sales.

So bottom line IMHO it would fit the pattern if the Seattle district wanted to have a special promotion of coupes all painted the same non-RPO color they would have been ordered under the same special order number

Hope this helps


Addition - Thought I had seen that Special order number - so I checked my notes from the mid 80's.

My notes show I saw a door (with door tag) from one of those at a Washington swap meet in the 80's.

Car was a 6 cylinder coupe,
projected build date of Feb 13th,
DSO matches
color listed as the expected "Y5"

[papa scoops]

jeff is correct on the info. some fords that were painted with fleet colors,used the dso + a 4 digit code for the paint colors. I remember this mostly on trucks. weyerhauser comes to mind. our dealership was located in north bend, washington. (fred lewis ford) i'm meeting up with my father this weekend, and i'll ask him about the car. this came up a while a go, and it seems like the deck lid was "missordered" by our parts dept, but the customer (friend of ours) liked it, and had us order everything to make him a gt/cs. we also did the same thing to a gulfstream aqua car. over the years i parted out a lime gtcs, and another gns with 40k! rust free too! phred

[robert campbell]

phred,
I was doing research on my "whatever it is" car and ran a bunch of Seattle Times micro fish from December 1967 to May of 1968.  Lots of Gold Nugget Special ads.  Lots of salesmens names.  Bottom of the Metke Ford of Bellevue add said "Home of the Shelby GT-500 & 350, and the new model "C" Cortina"!  YAAAA BABBEEEE, the Cortina!!!

Dan Blaeske was the sales manager at Smith Gandy Ford that I spoke of.  He works in the Lake City area.  My Marti says my car is from dealer 74A004.  Dan says that is incorrect for Smith Gandy.

Anyway, I have adds with at least 20 names from that era selling Fords.  I bet your Dad would know a few of them!!!

Rob

[GT/CS Registrar]

I just want to chime in and point out that Ford Dealers could get the fiberglass and other GT/CS parts for their parts dept. and sell over the counter (as per an Autolite brochure sent to dealers).

But this wasn't until well past March '68.  "IF" Robert's GNS (a pre-CS production dated Mustang) had been dealer modified, it would have had to been after March or later.  Probably later since Seattle (74) dealers could get the GT/CS as a "whole" car.  The only feasible possibility was that a dealer decided to modify, or option out a GNS with CS parts.  This might have been built as a dealer promo, or dealer personal car, etc...but the parts pipeline for CS parts wasn't established to any Ford dealer until after the GT/CS production was well established at San Jose.

In any case, and for future reference, a dealer-modifed Mustang with CS parts is not acceptible in the GT/CS Registry--as a legitimate GT/CS (both original and late model versions).

There are NO GT/CS combinations with the Sprint Package, or any other limited edition option, except the GT Option. There are NO additional digits to any GT/CS DSO numbers either. 

I was told that many Fords were painted fleet colors, including Mustangs in 1965-68 at Galpin Ford.  Although, I've never seen or heard of a fleet colored GT/CS, including Playboy Pink. 

I personally think Robert should just restore his Mustang back into a GNS, and celebrate that uniqueness alone.  That would command more attention than the quest for a "CS pedigree".

-Paul.

[robert campbell]

Paul,
Thanks for your input!  I kinda like the uniqueness of my car as it is, thank you.  Remember it is a twin.  Please do not think any of this is to establish it as a GT/CS.  That is plain, and this site (SAAC) is very sensitive to claims of unique origin of cars.  Mine is a GNS hacked up by some idiot back in time. SAAC has been to this "rodeo" many times.  Shelbydoug said it very respectfully and I get it, and respect him for what he wrote.  The registrar has to draw a line on what is what.  I actually put on your shoes and now you can get on with it.  I will continue to use the nice people on this site and my family at GT/CS.com to figure out what villain created my fake car.  It is no more valuable either way.  I love it!

Thank you again for denoting in public (again) that my car is not a GT/CS as registered by Marti and never will be in your book.  I do not care!  Old news!  Janice Brulc's also I guess.  Thanks for pointing out the obvious that the GT/CS parts were not available until the initial run of GT/CS cars.  We can connect the dots.

Please get back to the book.  I have lots of help here and on the GT/CS site to figure out what my car is or is not.

Thanks again for all your help in the past and in the future!  People who bought books are waiting.

Back to this thread thank you...

Rob 

[jbart]

 this is a past post at cs.com, paul clearly asks the people at cs.com if he should include other specials in the book, including gns cars.
it seems to me that paul is open to other specials in the book as long as they are listed as the documentation proves the cars to be





  #13 
PNewitt
Guest
 


Posts: n/a  Re:Need your input: Paul Newitt writing a new GT/CS Recog. & Owner's Manual

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WOW.

I am flattered to see this kind of reaction, and I thank everyone for their support and encouragement.

Off the top of my head, here is what I plan on doing for the GT/CS (HCS) book by next spring (Not in order):

History / Trivia, etc. (any new information)
(incl. Little Red and Green Hornet detailed info reproduced)
Options (factory & dealer)
Recognition /Authentication
Concours Judging Rules
Parts and Restoration
Diagrams & Parts Lists (& sources)
How to Upgrade to today's tech (Engine/ Suspension / Steering)
Registry & "percentages of options, colors, etc."
and..
Windshield Decal and Laser etched (plastic) dash plaque & steering wheel center.

(should I include '65-67 HCS, Ski Country Special and Gold Nugget Specials, too?)

As for the Registry--whether I include if cars are "real" by a Marti report (like an asterisk on the VIN#), solely depends on what Kevin would want to look over my list of car VIN's, and say yea or nay to them individually. I agree that this would be a good selling point of the book. I need to get with Kevin and discuss this first.

I have a zillion photos you've never seen, and I can share those, too.

I also have a feeling that this would be about a 100 page book. I think that since the '05 looks a lot like a '67-'68, this may add more fuel to value of the originals.

Also--I was reading in a "musclecar" mag last month how "fakes" are selling, since people want those cars--even if they aren't real. Frankly, that disgusts me, and to even admit that in a magazine like that only hurts the hobby--and those who really do care about authenticity. We really need to do something about these fake cars out there. Not to stop people from having fun, but from cheating buyers and sellers like this.

What do you think of this?

Thanks again, everyone, for your support!!
It's really gratifying to see your continued support and attention to my work (and for the values of the 1988 books on EBAY).

Paul M. Newitt
GT/CS Registrar
SAAC Member


 

[StangDriver]

While I am fascinated with Rob's research, I would hope that the GTCS registry stays focussed on GTCS and HCS cars only.  There were many other special edition Mustangs.  Some were labeled special only by paint color and many more have been lost to time and modification.  Including them all would only cloud the issue in my opinion.

[Pickled Grump]

Please provide a link.

Thank you
ETA:  Never mind, I found it.
http://californiaspecial.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6422&postcount=13

this is a past post at cs.com, paul clearly asks the people at cs.com if he should include other specials in the book, including gns cars.
it seems to me that paul is open to other specials in the book as long as they are listed as the documentation proves the cars to be





  #13 
PNewitt
Guest
 


Posts: n/a  Re:Need your input: Paul Newitt writing a new GT/CS Recog. & Owner's Manual

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WOW.

I am flattered to see this kind of reaction, and I thank everyone for their support and encouragement.

Off the top of my head, here is what I plan on doing for the GT/CS (HCS) book by next spring (Not in order):

History / Trivia, etc. (any new information)
(incl. Little Red and Green Hornet detailed info reproduced)
Options (factory & dealer)
Recognition /Authentication
Concours Judging Rules
Parts and Restoration
Diagrams & Parts Lists (& sources)
How to Upgrade to today's tech (Engine/ Suspension / Steering)
Registry & "percentages of options, colors, etc."
and..
Windshield Decal and Laser etched (plastic) dash plaque & steering wheel center.

(should I include '65-67 HCS, Ski Country Special and Gold Nugget Specials, too?)

As for the Registry--whether I include if cars are "real" by a Marti report (like an asterisk on the VIN#), solely depends on what Kevin would want to look over my list of car VIN's, and say yea or nay to them individually. I agree that this would be a good selling point of the book. I need to get with Kevin and discuss this first.

I have a zillion photos you've never seen, and I can share those, too.

I also have a feeling that this would be about a 100 page book. I think that since the '05 looks a lot like a '67-'68, this may add more fuel to value of the originals.

Also--I was reading in a "musclecar" mag last month how "fakes" are selling, since people want those cars--even if they aren't real. Frankly, that disgusts me, and to even admit that in a magazine like that only hurts the hobby--and those who really do care about authenticity. We really need to do something about these fake cars out there. Not to stop people from having fun, but from cheating buyers and sellers like this.

What do you think of this?

Thanks again, everyone, for your support!!
It's really gratifying to see your continued support and attention to my work (and for the values of the 1988 books on EBAY).

Paul M. Newitt
GT/CS Registrar
SAAC Member


 

[GT/CS Registrar]

Oh, Gosh, nothing like being quoted!  AAHH!

Robert, here is an idea for you.  Let's treat your GNS as if (which  it could be) a dealer-modified GNS with GT/CS parts that the dealer could have provided, say, in the late part of '68?  You could pull off the CS script, and it would be a customized GNS in vintage trim.  What you do for the engine (amazing, no doubt), is up to you. Shelby vintage parts, with some other things you could have bought in '68-'69 would bring your GNS to a one of a kind representation of what a Ford Dealer (or owner) using Ford, Shelby aftermarket and other vintage parts could have built up.  For instance, if it's an FE, use a Sidewinder intake, holley, CS Shelby valve covers, '68-era Shelby five spokes ('69 wheels with CS center caps--I have the March 68 Hot Rod issue to prove it).

I think you'd have a lot of fun building this up as a 1968-69-era vintage-modified GNS, and it would be a great example for others that would like to do the vintage thing on their coupe, conv, CS, etc.  We (SAAC) could help identify and locate parts for you to do this.  I'd also nail down ALL the research you could find about the GNS, and make it available to the net, and make posters, etc., for car shows.  If you did this "concours modified", you'd probably not only win, but make a good point for others in MCA, SAAC, as well as MNW.

If you were willing to do this, I'd post a small pic of your GNS below the page I have from the Autolite book to describe how coupe owners bought these parts and installed them.  Although not a true CS, your GNS would be a prime example of how people back then used the CS parts for customization.

I mean, you'd like a pic of your GNS in my book, wouldn't you? 

Let me know--we can make this happen.

Paul.

[GT/CS Registrar]

While I am fascinated with Rob's research, I would hope that the GTCS registry stays focussed on GTCS and HCS cars only.  There were many other special edition Mustangs.  Some were labeled special only by paint color and many more have been lost to time and modification.  Including them all would only cloud the issue in my opinion.

No worries, no distillation of  the marque.  Just the real deal.  Thanks for your concern.

And BTW--the quote mentions the page count...it's actually 224.

Paul.

[5S545]

Oh, Gosh, nothing like being quoted!  AAHH!

Robert, here is an idea for you.  Let's treat your GNS as if (which  it could be) a dealer-modified GNS with GT/CS parts that the dealer could have provided, say, in the late part of '68?  You could pull off the CS script, and it would be a customized GNS in vintage trim.  What you do for the engine (amazing, no doubt), is up to you. Shelby vintage parts, with some other things you could have bought in '68-'69 would bring your GNS to a one of a kind representation of what a Ford Dealer (or owner) using Ford, Shelby aftermarket and other vintage parts could have built up.  For instance, if it's an FE, use a Sidewinder intake, holley, CS Shelby valve covers, '68-era Shelby five spokes ('69 wheels with CS center caps--I have the March 68 Hot Rod issue to prove it).

I think you'd have a lot of fun building this up as a 1968-69-era vintage-modified GNS, and it would be a great example for others that would like to do the vintage thing on their coupe, conv, CS, etc.  We (SAAC) could help identify and locate parts for you to do this.  I'd also nail down ALL the research you could find about the GNS, and make it available to the net, and make posters, etc., for car shows.  If you did this "concours modified", you'd probably not only win, but make a good point for others in MCA, SAAC, as well as MNW.

If you were willing to do this, I'd post a small pic of your GNS below the page I have from the Autolite book to describe how coupe owners bought these parts and installed them.  Although not a true CS, your GNS would be a prime example of how people back then used the CS parts for customization.

I mean, you'd like a pic of your GNS in my book, wouldn't you? 

Let me know--we can make this happen.

Paul.

For some reason the word "condescending" just popped into my mind.       


Deborah

[Computerworks]

  I have seen numerous Gold Nugget Specials (GNS) in our area

While digging for more info on GNS, as mentioned in this thread (of which I knew very little  ), I found this old page listing variations and specials over the early years.

http://pages.prodigy.net/d.hughmanick/specials.html

Interesting how many stickers, badges and colors were used to customize the Mustang and move them off the lot.

[R Code]

Oh, Gosh, nothing like being quoted!  AAHH!...

...Let's treat your GNS as if (which  it could be) a dealer-modified GNS with GT/CS parts that the dealer could have provided, say, in the late part of '68?...

At the risk of sounding like I give a flying f@#!, isn't that what Robert is trying to do via some sort of documentation quest?

...You could pull off the CS script, and it would be a customized GNS in vintage trim.  What you do for the engine (amazing, no doubt), is up to you. Shelby vintage parts, with some other things you could have bought in '68-'69 would bring your GNS to a one of a kind representation of what a Ford Dealer (or owner) using Ford, Shelby aftermarket and other vintage parts could have built up.  For instance, if it's an FE, use a Sidewinder intake, holley, CS Shelby valve covers, '68-era Shelby five spokes ('69 wheels with CS center caps--I have the March 68 Hot Rod issue to prove it).  I think you'd have a lot of fun building this up as a 1968-69-era vintage-modified GNS, and it would be a great example for others that would like to do the vintage thing on their coupe, conv, CS, etc...

...If you were willing to do this, I'd post a small pic of your GNS below the page I have from the Autolite book to describe how coupe owners bought these parts and installed them.  Although not a true CS, your GNS would be a prime example of how people back then used the CS parts for customization.

I mean, you'd like a pic of your GNS in my book, wouldn't you?  

Let me know--we can make this happen.

Paul.

So if Robert modifies his car as YOU see fit, he can be in the book?

...We (SAAC) could help identify and locate parts for you to do this...

Is that the royal "We"?

Paul, I only know you by the words you type, and by the drama that came here with you.  If you are trying to come off like a pompous windbag: it's working.

[R Code]

While I am fascinated with Rob's research, I would hope that the GTCS registry stays focussed on GTCS and HCS cars only.  There were many other special edition Mustangs.  Some were labeled special only by paint color and many more have been lost to time and modification.  Including them all would only cloud the issue in my opinion.

This the funny thing: Most people lump all the "special edition" Mustangs into the same category.  The only boast the CS can lay claim to (vs. the other "specials") is that it had a few more parts bolted onto it, and thus can be more easily identified from a Marti report 40 years later.

The only one that looks like it had any unique engineering behind it was this one:

1969 Mustang "E"

A little known model was the Mustang 'E'. It was basically a standard economy minded SportsRoof model with a 250 ci. six cylinder engine, an automatic transmission with a special torque converter, and a very low, 2.33:1 rear axle ratio. Mustang 'E' lettering on the rear quarters identified this Mustang as such. It is belived that there were approximately 50 Mustang 'E's produced.