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Author Topic: Brief explanation of concours class's again  (Read 1629 times)
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Bob Gaines
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« on: December 01, 2017, 09:04:02 AM »

I have had to explain the difference in concours class's to several people in the last week . They were using the guidelines as a basis for a restoration now and others plans in the future. I thought others that are doing the same thing may benefit from a brief explanation. I am using the most common names of the class's for clarity.   For restored car there are two class in concours.  First and foremost everything has to look as new and fresh as when the car was first delivered to the first customer from the dealer back in the day. The same high standard of workmanship is expected in both restored class's . Orange peel factory looking paint is expected in both class's , a sliding scale deduction can be expected otherwise. DIV I has deductions for any reproduction or non assemblyline service parts like Belts, Hoses , Battery,tires etc. In DIV 1 they have to be date code correct too. All bare metal finishes need to look fresh with no clear coat paint or other look a like painted metal finishes . A worn original part will have deduction on a sliding scale with a reproduction part getting a full deduction as if it were not there.  DIV II allows good reproduction parts with no deductions and bad ones getting a deduction on a sliding scale . Painted look a like metal parts are allowed with deductions for obvious ones. Date codes on parts are not checked.  A worn original part is not going to be better then a comparable well made reproduction part in DIV II and deductions will be made for a worn original part on a sliding scale.  This is just the basics and not all in depth nuance details are covered, but hopefully the brief explanation will help others with their expectations and goals to work towards. Understand that not every concours car necessarily needs dated coded parts. The point is the correct historic looking parts are first most important. A date coded part within a acceptable range of the build date of the car is just icing on the cake IMO. I see people getting tunnel vision on finding a date code for a given part which date codes are typically hard or impossible to see once installed and yet many other highly visible items overlooked or not corrected. Consistency across the spectrum of items makes the most sense. Chug a Lug

« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 09:10:27 AM by Bob Gaines » Logged

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Coralsnake
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« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2017, 10:20:50 AM »

Personally, I think an easy solution would be to put all cars in the same class. The judges instead of the owners should determine if a car goes to another level. That would seem to eliminate the confusion?

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CorvetteMike (formerly mikeljgt500kr)
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« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2017, 12:16:27 PM »

Personally, I think an easy solution would be to put all cars in the same class. The judges instead of the owners should determine if a car goes to another level. That would seem to eliminate the confusion?

+1

Also: "A date coded part within a acceptable range of the build date of the car is just icing on the cake IMO."

What is the acceptable range for a date code on a part, relative to the car's build date?

Thanks.


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Coralsnake
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« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2017, 02:35:39 PM »

It depends on what part it is....and its based on how other similar cars were built.

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CorvetteMike (formerly mikeljgt500kr)
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« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2017, 03:20:55 PM »

It depends on what part it is....and its based on how other similar cars were built.

Thanks!  Can entrants find out the list of parts and the acceptable date variances before they restore and enter the car for judging? Chug a Lug

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Coralsnake
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« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2017, 03:31:24 PM »

Yes, they need to research every part individually. If it were easy, everyone would do it

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CorvetteMike (formerly mikeljgt500kr)
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« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2017, 03:49:37 PM »

Thank you.

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Chris Thauberger
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« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2017, 03:52:26 PM »

Yes, they need to research every part individually. If it were easy, everyone would do it

Amen

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J_Speegle
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« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2017, 04:00:18 PM »

Personally, I think an easy solution would be to put all cars in the same class. The judges instead of the owners should determine if a car goes to another level. That would seem to eliminate the confusion?

If pictures and information was collected prior to show so that this could be reviewed then confirmed on the first day of the show that would speed things and allow the head judges to know where the car stands prior to the day.  Not o that things can be changed and made better before the show (that is what the forum, personal research and individual help it for) but to place the car in the best class for it at that point.


Yes, they need to research every part individually. If it were easy, everyone would do it

 No EASY button.  Plus many of this sort of publications tend to produce cookie cutter cars

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Jeff Speegle
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CorvetteMike (formerly mikeljgt500kr)
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« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2017, 04:10:15 PM »

Thanks all, this is all abundantly clear now. Chug a Lug

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Coralsnake
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« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2017, 04:24:05 PM »

Considering the extremely small number of cars that would ever reach the level, it would not be a very productive to assemble a comprehensive list of date codes and parts for every single year and model.

You have to keep in mind Shelbys were extremely rare. They are not like some other brands, that pumped out tens of thousands of cars per year.

1965 to 1970 Shelbys = 13,767

1965 to 1970 Corvette = 158,866 or more than 11 times as many

Average number of cars that are judged in SAAC “Division 1” per year = 1 (for all cars shown)





« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 04:45:08 PM by Coralsnake » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2017, 06:53:15 PM »

I fully understand and agree, it is necessarily a small, exclusive club. Chug a Lug

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Coralsnake
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« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2017, 07:02:59 PM »

And they said there was no hope for you..... Hysterical

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CorvetteMike (formerly mikeljgt500kr)
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« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2017, 07:40:53 PM »

And they said there was no hope for you..... Hysterical
+1   I never really questioned that.........It has taken a while to fully process all the implications of it...... Chug a Lug

« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 07:50:45 PM by CorvetteMike (formerly mikeljgt500kr) » Logged
J_Speegle
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« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2017, 07:56:03 PM »

Considering the extremely small number of cars that would ever reach the level, it would not be a very productive to assemble a comprehensive list of date codes and parts for every single year and model. ...........................
Average number of cars that are judged in SAAC Division 1” per year = 1 (for all cars shown)

Agreed there are many thousands or tens of thousands of parts that would need to be identified then the ranges figured out for all the periods (if its not done by individual day) of production. In some unusual cases its not date codes but other coding in place of the date.

Much easier IMHO to identify the one car and identify what would be correct for that car that way the most recent and complete list could be established to help the judges.  This is something I've done in the past for "those cars" that show up for judging and for cares that were being helped out during restoration or on forums. Though not necessary allot of owners builders want to build their cars as correct as possible - not just barely make it across the finish line  Roll Eyes Often just because they want to


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Jeff Speegle
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