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Author Topic: 428PI still running hot  (Read 8270 times)
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KR Convertible
Paul Orr
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« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2017, 01:46:33 PM »

I'll let you know after I try it.  Not sure if it's been done before.   Chug a Lug

Might blow the hood right off!

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Bob Gaines
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« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2017, 03:37:44 PM »



Bob,  I just hope you're wrong for once!  I thought .030 over would be ok.  If it needed to go bigger, I was going to sleeve it.
I hope the overbore is not the problem ether  " I hope this is NOT your problem" . At this point you need to eliminate all other possibilities .You don't have anything to lose at this point considering the alternative . Best of luck with the diagnosis . Chug a Lug

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« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2017, 04:26:17 PM »

Quote
People used to rebuild them with mixed results.  Chris Brown has excellent repros, from what I have read.  I am thinking about opening my clutch up and converting it from limited slip to a locker.

Hope you're not serious - may end up with worse problems.  Fan clutch will limit max fan RPM to around 2000.  Those big 7 blade fans not meant to run 4 to 5 grand.   Better off with flex fan or good fan clutch IMHO.

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propayne
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« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2017, 04:32:31 PM »

Did some Cobra Jets or Super Cobra Jets come with a fixed fan from the factory?

- Phillip

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Red67co
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« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2017, 05:15:31 PM »

I'm late to this conversation so hope that I'm not repeating something all ready said. I'm had a overheating problem at cruise in my mustang running a 428cj. the engine would cool back down at idle. Radiator was new 3 row big block HD. Ended up not being big enough. replaced with one that had more core tubes have had no problem since then even in hot summer driving .   

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6770shelby
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« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2017, 07:32:32 PM »

Having fought this battle for several years now can someone recommend a replacement radiator?

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Bob Gaines
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« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2017, 07:34:52 PM »

Hope you're not serious - may end up with worse problems.  Fan clutch will limit max fan RPM to around 2000.  Those big 7 blade fans not meant to run 4 to 5 grand.   Better off with flex fan or good fan clutch IMHO.
+++1

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« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2017, 08:23:20 PM »

The spring in the bottom hose is to stop the hose from collapsing as this is the suction side of the pump, without a spring its possible to have a restriction in the cooling system.  A carb jetted too lean can cause the engine to run hot.

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Wood27man
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« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2017, 08:51:40 PM »

One thing not mentioned in this thread is you may have air trapped in the cooling system. This happens after an engine rebuild when there is no coolant in the system and you fill.
    Do you have a shroud on the radiator? That can help.

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BigBlock
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« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2017, 04:18:40 AM »

Are you using the original Ford temperature sender or a NOS replacement. The repros have the wrong resistance and tend to show a hotter temperature. I have used a remote heat reading gun and a temperature reading radiator cap to try and get a true reading.

Phillip - several 390s I've had .30 in the end required a high flow water pump and a torque starter for the hot slow cranking.

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« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2017, 05:41:17 AM »

If you are running a vacuum advance on distributor, it may be increasing your timing much higher than you realize when driving the car.   Vacuum is highly variable depending on load and other factors.  My engine builder and dyno tuner suggested I eliminate vacuum advance, which I did.  I have 20 degrees mechanical advance in distributor.  It starts at 1000rpm and all 20 degrees are in by 2600.  I set total timing at 36 and the initial takes care of itself. 

I ran a FlowKooler waterpump and a new high efficiency 20 inch radiator by US Radiator.  I am currently troubleshooting why my engine runs too cold.  351W bored .020 over. 

When filling a empty block/radiator, I fill it using a hose connected to heater elbow on intake with the radiator cap off.  It fills the block and radiator together and eliminates air pockets. 

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Red67co
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« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2017, 06:54:42 AM »

I'm running a Champion Aluminum with two electric fans on it. Runs around 205 degrees at cruise on the highway. At 3400 rpm. Do to the 3.89 gears I'm running. Around town will set around 195 degrees.

« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 06:56:35 AM by Red67co » Logged
propayne
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« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2017, 07:14:26 AM »

Anybody have any knowledge or thoughts on eliminating the clutch all-together and going with a fixed fan?

Also, does the radiator-to-hood seal help much?

Thanks all!!  Chug a Lug

- Phillip

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stickshift
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« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2017, 07:22:06 AM »

What makes everyone think that they are running too hot?

You want an operating temperature that puts the coolant operating temperature in the the 210 to 220 range. You need to boil the moisture out of the engine.

Oil temps in that same range would be ideal but 220 t0 230 are not out of the question.

You are running with a pressurized system. The point of the pressurized system to run higher than boiling point temperatures safely.

IF you are running oil temps below about that temp, 212, you are not removing the moisture from the oil. If you aren't getting to that temp you are creating needless wear on the moving parts of the engine AND the clearances that were determined for your bearings, rings, etc, are set around "normal operating temps".




Modern engines operate safely and properly in the 230 to 240 degree range. Most of those systems are pressurized to 15psi.

The biggest problem with Ford FE's are the difficulty in restarting them when "at normal operating temps". It isn't the only Ford engine series that experiences this.

In later days Ford engineered a solid state distributor and brain that retards the advance at re-start in order to help this situation. I think that system comes in around 1974 or 1975 model year?
I believe that the timing controlled by that device reduces the initial timing by four degrees?

16 to 20 degrees initial timing on any engine is very high for restart purposes. Necessary though in my opinion to crispin throttle response.


As a Pantera owner I will add that the Cleveland tends to be susceptible to these tendencies also and GREATLY is aided by the "retarded advance at start".



Google what the normal operating temps of a 50/50 coolant mixture should be with 12 pound system. You actually can gain an advantage in running as much as a 75/25 mix but that chart you will need to search for, but it's there.



I will add that these days running pump gas static compression ratios of over 10:1 also add to the issue. I saw a 66 GT350 with pop-up pistons (11.5 to 12:1 static compression) reed two batteries to start it hot.

My own Cleveland  with 11.8:1 TRW pistons was almost impossible to start hot UNTIL I did the Motorcraft solid state distributor/brain thing. Then it became a pussy cat.




« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 07:32:12 AM by stickshift » Logged
KR Convertible
Paul Orr
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« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2017, 08:26:51 AM »

Thanks for all of the great ideas.  I am trying to keep the car as close to original as possible.  The car was restored to gold standards using mostly NOS parts and I hate to deviate from that.

As far as locking up the fan clutch goes, it was a frustration driven comment.  It certainly would give lots of air flow.  Hence, the comment about the hood blowing off.

I am using the same sending unit that was in the car when I bought it, along with stock fan, clutch, shroud and a re-cored stock radiator. I have used a laser temp gun to compare the gauge to actual.  Centerline on gauge is right around 200,  3/4 on gauge is around 240.

Has anyone tried running without a stat on a 428?  I remember doing it on a small block and running too cold, but I would prefer that at this point.  I know there's the whole argument about coolant flowing too fast to cool, but isn't that the same as adding a high flow water pump?  The water pump will only flow what the stat will allow to pass, the rest goes through the bypass hose.

Thanks again and keep 'em coming

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1957 Thunderbird F code
1959 Cadillac 62 Series convertible
1966 Mustang GT convertible
1968 GT500 convertible #0181
2016 Ford "Exploder"
2016 F450 King Ranch
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