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Author Topic: 428PI still running hot  (Read 7348 times)
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KR Convertible
Paul Orr
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« on: July 10, 2017, 10:30:06 AM »

I am thinking about changing my fan clutch.  I spoke to Chris Brown a while back and he said I should confirm the application with the experts here.  The car build date is 11/25/67, auto, no a/c.  There is a C7ZE-B on it now, and read on a different thread it may not be correct.  What would be correct?

I don't think that is my problem.  I tried an aftermarket replacement for diagnosing, and it seemed to run a little hotter with that.

Since then, I rebuilt the engine (still @ .030) had the block baked and shot peened to clean water jacket. Re-cored the radiator, shop said it was flowing about 60% of what it should. Checked the impeller on the water pump, looked ok, cast iron impeller, vanes look fine.  I used a 160 degree Mr. Gasket stat and it still went over 200 degrees on a 15 minute test drive on a 70 degree night.

I haven't spent too much time tuning yet, but it just seems too hot!    Head knock

Thanks in advance,
Paul

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« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2017, 10:37:53 AM »

What is the Total advance timing set at?

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« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2017, 10:42:54 AM »

Do you have a spring in the lower radiator hose?

The GT500 is the C8ZX-A fan clutch  Chug a Lug

« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 10:45:11 AM by Coralsnake » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2017, 10:44:47 AM »

Paul, looks like you covered many things.  however, I would replace the Radiator & water pump, Edelbrock makes a excellent pump that's looks like a Ford assy.  I have one, flows very good.
good luck

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« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2017, 10:55:36 AM »

probably just a cracked block. phred

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« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2017, 11:14:02 AM »

Paul, looks like you covered many things.  however, I would replace the Radiator & water pump, Edelbrock makes a excellent pump that's looks like a Ford assy.  I have one, flows very good.
good luck
Others have taken the Edlebrock water pump or heads and had the trademark machined off so as to blend in and not be so noticeable as a after market piece.

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« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2017, 11:20:32 AM »

All the above good advice, also suggest Evans Waterless Coolant.    Just Google it and look at the info.

Good luck. 

Mike C.

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« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2017, 11:23:39 AM »

I am having nearly identical problems on a 390 I just had rebuilt.

I also had the original radiator re-cored, had a "Tuff Stuff" performance water pump installed and a 180 degree Mr. Gasket thermostat.

I replaced my original fan clutch with a new one (I kept my original). I suspect the new clutch is not working properly.

I've been told just to ditch using a clutch all-together and install a fixed fan.

My question is, is an original clutch rebuildable?

And if so, any recommendations?

- Phillip

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« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2017, 11:36:58 AM »

I am thinking about changing my fan clutch.  I spoke to Chris Brown a while back and he said I should confirm the application with the experts here.  The car build date is 11/25/67, auto, no a/c.  There is a C7ZE-B on it now, and read on a different thread it may not be correct.  What would be correct?

I don't think that is my problem.  I tried an aftermarket replacement for diagnosing, and it seemed to run a little hotter with that.

Since then, I rebuilt the engine (still @ .030) had the block baked and shot peened to clean water jacket. Re-cored the radiator, shop said it was flowing about 60% of what it should. Checked the impeller on the water pump, looked ok, cast iron impeller, vanes look fine.  I used a 160 degree Mr. Gasket stat and it still went over 200 degrees on a 15 minute test drive on a 70 degree night.

I haven't spent too much time tuning yet, but it just seems too hot!    Head knock

Thanks in advance,
Paul
Paul, if you have addressed all of the things you mentioned including timing then you are not the first to experience "Big Block itis" . Unfortunately many times  the cause can be traced back to a over bored engine. I have had it happen too many times on fe's that I have owned or worked on that now I typically will sleeve all the cylinders back to standard . The fe's are notorious for over heating with rebuilds that require overbore . I know there are many that don't seem to have a issue. I suppose I have just had extra bad luck in that department.  I have heard many engine builders that claim that they will not run hot with a 30,40 over bore but guess what since I have been doing the sleeve to standard and have suggested to others to do it ,the ones I have been involved with have not run hot . My bad luck has changed in that regard. Maybe 25 engines now.I have course have had other minor issues but not related to sleeving.  I have a friend shop who specializes in Mustangs/Shelby''s and his overheating success rate is many times higher.  I'm not saying all over heat because of overboriing but I suspect a significant amount do. The extra cost of sleeving 5-800.00 ? is like a insurance policy to my perspective. One less big thing to have to worry about it when I do it. It is one of those things that cost a lot more in time and money to cure after the fact.   I have had a pretty good track record to confirm my perspective compared to before. I hope this is NOT your problem because typically the only cure is to start over again on the engine.   Chug a Lug

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Paul Orr
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« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2017, 11:43:41 AM »

What is the Total advance timing set at?

I tried to put a light on it, but no matter the angle, I can't see the marks past the alt belts.  I need to either use mirrors, a borescope, or remove at least one of the alt belts.  I set it by ear for now, it was 2am when I finished.  It does not ping until it really gets hot.

Do you have a spring in the lower radiator hose?

The GT500 is the C8ZX-A fan clutch  Chug a Lug

I do not have a spring in the lower hose.  The system seems to build enough pressure to keep it from collapsing though.  I will try that.  Another tower clamp bites the dust!

Paul, looks like you covered many things.  however, I would replace the Radiator & water pump, Edelbrock makes a excellent pump that's looks like a Ford assy.  I have one, flows very good.
good luck

I am trying to keep all factory parts.  They worked in the 60s, hopefully I can make them work now.

probably just a cracked block. phred

And phinally,  Aren't you mister glass half phrickin' phull!!    Hysterical
Had it checked for cracks, heads too.

Thanks to all.

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« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2017, 12:09:56 PM »

Using a heat gun to confirm temp?

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« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2017, 12:37:19 PM »

If the timing is off, you will run hot, whether too advanced or too retarded.

Ask your builder what he suggests for the build. Personally, I would want 32-36 degrees total advance (at 3000 rpm).

Fast and easy. Might be the problem, at the very least, get the most power and best economy.

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KR Convertible
Paul Orr
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« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2017, 12:55:46 PM »

All the above good advice, also suggest Evans Waterless Coolant.    Just Google it and look at the info.

Good luck.  

Mike C.

After consulting a builder that I have a great respect for, I was told that Evans although being a great maintenance-free product, actually caused engines to run a bit hotter than antifreeze.  I was advised to run straight antifreeze (no water) and a sacrificial anode.  So that is what I did.

I am having nearly identical problems on a 390 I just had rebuilt.

I also had the original radiator re-cored, had a "Tuff Stuff" performance water pump installed and a 180 degree Mr. Gasket thermostat.

I replaced my original fan clutch with a new one (I kept my original). I suspect the new clutch is not working properly.

I've been told just to ditch using a clutch all-together and install a fixed fan.

My question is, is an original clutch rebuildable?

And if so, any recommendations?

- Phillip

People used to rebuild them with mixed results.  Chris Brown has excellent repros, from what I have read.  I am thinking about opening my clutch up and converting it from limited slip to a locker.

Using a heat gun to confirm temp?

Yup.  Cheap Harbor Freight one, but it seems to work ok.  This weekend I want to get the timing set and compare upper and lower hose temps.

Bob,  I just hope you're wrong for once!  I thought .030 over would be ok.  If it needed to go bigger, I was going to sleeve it.

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« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2017, 01:39:50 PM »

People used to rebuild them with mixed results.  Chris Brown has excellent repros, from what I have read.  I am thinking about opening my clutch up and converting it from limited slip to a locker.

That sounds like a plan - any instructions available on how that is done?

- Phillip

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« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2017, 01:41:46 PM »

   Pure antifreeze will run hotter than a 50/50 mix. There are companies offering 50/50 premix antifreeze too.  I suspect the water pump or the radiator. At highway speeds a cooling fan isn't needed .

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