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Author Topic: G.T.500 with 427?  (Read 7636 times)
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427heaven
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« Reply #165 on: July 17, 2017, 08:00:01 AM »

The tunnel port set up is the ultimate cylinder head from 50 years ago. It flows probably 2 2.5 better than the standard heads. The low riser head from 63-65 is very similar to the standard early 390 head depending which one were talking about, there has been hundreds of books discussing the differences in these heads. So leave out the stroker version of any engine comparing heads, the low riser was where performance started and a couple years later 1967 is where FORD engineers developed the ultimate wedge head. To answer your questions about streetability it comes down to the big 3 c's CAM,COMPRESSION,CARBS. if you run mild set up with these components you can run most anything on the street, hope this helps. PeelOut

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stickshift
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« Reply #166 on: July 17, 2017, 08:31:37 AM »

Actual test flow numbers NEED to be stated on these heads. Just saying that one flows twice what another does, does not help to understand the power potential on them.

For instance, a Boss 302/351 C head with a three angle valve job flows right at 300cfm @ .600" lift.

The dynos show Clevelands making much more horsepower then 7's do and probably ever did?

Do they make as much torque? Well depends? 500 at 5,000rpm yes on a Cleveland as opposed to something like 450 at 1,500 on a '7. That's a function of cubes though. Not the heads.

427 Clevelands are right there with the torque and quite a bit more horses.

ANY time you put 7 liters in a chassis that weighs 2,500 pounds, something is going to happen...good. Judging the potential by using a Cobra as a yardstick is wrong in so many ways.


I remember a comment made by an "Old Timer" at a Yankee Old Timers Day. He was sitting there listening to the next introduction thinking WOW! Wondering who it was going to be? When it turned out to be him, he said, "gee, you should have told me that you loved me back then. It would have helped. You just told me I sucked and ran me out of town". (Roger Maris)

Seems like the individual feats get bigger and greater the more time passes by? 427's are getting faster in the old days, day by day.

The 427 admittedly did do alright for an irrigation 'motor' though?  Wink

« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 10:06:40 AM by stickshift » Logged
gt350hr
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« Reply #167 on: July 17, 2017, 10:15:55 AM »

    Stickshift  ,
        FEW   people have actually run tunnel port engines. Those of us who have know the pluses and minuses , the rest just spout what they have read.

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owner 6S477 HERTZ White w/Blue stripes-1of18-since 1974. OVER 3,500 drag strip runs made in it since then. My candidate for the "worlds Most drag raced Shelby" More added all the time.
68er
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« Reply #168 on: July 17, 2017, 10:21:37 AM »

Thanks guys.  Interesting stuff!  Amazing some of the over the counter performance items you could get from Ford for these cars.  It seems that most of the tunnel port intakes you see are the single plane.  But since a dual plane intake was also available, would that not give you a broader power range?  I am guessing that the single plane would really begin to work well on the tunnel port heads at 5,000 or 6,000 rpm (or more).  But the dual plane might be tuned to start to peak earlier, like 3,500 or 4,000 rpm?  And that the single plane would give you more hp at the top.

I am guessing that the tunnel port heads only work on the 427, and not other FE blocks, like the 428.

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PBF
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« Reply #169 on: July 17, 2017, 10:25:22 AM »

     Yes, generally one would expect better low-end performance and throttle response from a cylinder head of lesser intake port area; but often during the time period of the "Tunnel-Port" camshaft profiles compounded the negative values more so than that which needed to be tolerated.

     We ran the T.P., the ford C7OE-A single plane 8V intake, two mechanical 750's (sideways), with an amazingly small mechanical roller cam (like: 248į @.050" & .498" lift?); yeah, 4.56's, but with 31"- 32" (?) tall tires too;......... what a torque monster!  
                                                                                                      Party on

     The car (1970 GT500) was full weight, and the only time we ever could get the rear tires to not spin (at the track w/ VHT) was with the addition four (4) 351c cylinder heads (they're rectangular & stack well), ( and complete also) & a 3 drawer tool box (loaded to the max) placed in the trunk on 1" x 6" wood planks over the fuel tank (always filled for its ballast value) and packed with the car cover & other soft "stuff" to keep it all in place. O.K., it wasn't a legal ballast installation, but hey, it was all we had at the time to throw in; and we got the trophy that day ("Fastest-Street-Car").  
             Cool one          

     Without the junk-in-the-trunk, the car would still be tracking sideways, hazing the tires through third gear (top loader). Everyone would get the jump on us off the line due to tire-spin, but once it hooked-up, then we would "run-them-down" in the last half of the track.    
                                                                                                                                      Chug a Lug

     Scott.

« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 10:39:24 AM by PBF » Logged
68er
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« Reply #170 on: July 17, 2017, 11:00:42 AM »

Does anyone have the specs on what was included in that Ford 427 tunnel port complete crate engine they sold over the counter back in 1967-68?  I am especially curious as to what cam Ford used in it.  As an over the counter engine, would it have an official horsepower rating from the factory?

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427heaven
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« Reply #171 on: July 17, 2017, 11:41:01 AM »

Does anyone have the specs on what was included in that Ford 427 tunnel port complete crate engine they sold over the counter back in 1967-68?  I am especially curious as to what cam Ford used in it.  As an over the counter engine, would it have an official horsepower rating from the factory?
   68ER- The cams from back in the day are better off left to history. Todays cam technology is what you should be concerned with, the numbers were very mild by modern standards. Race car parts never had official numbers back then as to day, such as this cam makes 75hp etc, there are too many variables.

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gt350hr
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« Reply #172 on: July 17, 2017, 12:45:24 PM »

Does anyone have the specs on what was included in that Ford 427 tunnel port complete crate engine they sold over the counter back in 1967-68?  I am especially curious as to what cam Ford used in it.  As an over the counter engine, would it have an official horsepower rating from the factory?

      It never was an "over the counter crate engine" It was service parts only. Only engines that were for production applications were available through Ford Parts and Service Division. YES the 427 SOHC would have been in Galaxies IF Nascar hadn't banned it. That is why so many were built and the "dumped" through Holman Moody.

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owner 6S477 HERTZ White w/Blue stripes-1of18-since 1974. OVER 3,500 drag strip runs made in it since then. My candidate for the "worlds Most drag raced Shelby" More added all the time.
gt350hr
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« Reply #173 on: July 17, 2017, 12:49:19 PM »

     PBF - Scott,
         A set of Cal Trac bars would have had you dragging the rear bumper. BTW I see it's up for sale again . Still very low mileage.
      Randy

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owner 6S477 HERTZ White w/Blue stripes-1of18-since 1974. OVER 3,500 drag strip runs made in it since then. My candidate for the "worlds Most drag raced Shelby" More added all the time.
jim mac
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« Reply #174 on: July 17, 2017, 01:01:03 PM »


I donít have any specific information on Robie Ford.

Dennis


Thanks Dennis!  That info I have.  Was looking for anything more related to Robie Ford. 

Jim

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"If things seem under control, you're just not going fast enough."  - Mario Andretti
68er
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« Reply #175 on: July 17, 2017, 02:10:59 PM »

     It never was an "over the counter crate engine" It was service parts only. Only engines that were for production applications were available through Ford Parts and Service Division. YES the 427 SOHC would have been in Galaxies IF Nascar hadn't banned it. That is why so many were built and the "dumped" through Holman Moody.

But if you look at that 1967-68 vintage Ford ad that was posted here it says that you could buy the tunnel port heads and intake separately, or that you could buy the complete 427 engine with the tunnel port setup:

"Buy a complete 427 engine assembly with the tunnel port heads installed"

"427 Engine with Tunnel Port Heads . . . C7OE-6007-T-361-A"

That sounds like a crate motor, with a Ford C7 part number.

The ad seems to be from the 1968 model year time frame, because the separate sale tunnel port heads have a C8 part number.

« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 02:16:21 PM by 68er » Logged
427heaven
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« Reply #176 on: July 17, 2017, 03:16:00 PM »

I believe it came from the parts counter, not complete engines but engine parts. For awhile you needed to know someone or BE someone to get the best parts in your hot little hands. This coming from those that ran some of this stuff back in the day!

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gt350hr
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« Reply #177 on: July 17, 2017, 03:55:05 PM »

      I don't know anyone who ever got one by ordering a C7OE 6007 T-361-A. The local Ford dealer had one on back order for a year ( complete assembly line engines were only available during the specific model year BTW) They finally gave up and ordered pieces. Now a quick trip to Holman Moody- Stroppe would buy you one ready to run for twice the $$s after they put it together from the same pieces.

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owner 6S477 HERTZ White w/Blue stripes-1of18-since 1974. OVER 3,500 drag strip runs made in it since then. My candidate for the "worlds Most drag raced Shelby" More added all the time.
68er
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« Reply #178 on: July 17, 2017, 05:04:07 PM »

      I don't know anyone who ever got one by ordering a C7OE 6007 T-361-A. The local Ford dealer had one on back order for a year ( complete assembly line engines were only available during the specific model year BTW) They finally gave up and ordered pieces. Now a quick trip to Holman Moody- Stroppe would buy you one ready to run for twice the $$s after they put it together from the same pieces.

Thanks for the history lesson!  If only it were that easy...  A little digging on the Internet indicates that the Ford ad was from approximately December 1967, so 1968 model year.  That probably explains the C8 part number for the heads (but it seems that the tunnel port heads and intakes actually came with C7 cast numbers on them).

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427heaven
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« Reply #179 on: July 17, 2017, 06:16:49 PM »

Are you looking for an engine or parts? Or do you just like vintage performance adds? PeelOut

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