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Author Topic: 289 mechanical lifter adjustment  (Read 3031 times)
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zray
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« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2017, 04:15:29 PM »

The only time I've seen valves out of adjustement in the excess side, is when the cam was on the way out, or the Ford adjustment  nut was backing off. Usually the clearance is getting more narrow as time goes by.

Z

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cobradad
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And the garage space to put them in....


« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2017, 07:35:31 PM »

I love these valve cover gaskets.  Great sealing and they do not crush flat.  They also make a one piece oil pan gasket.  I just put one in the 1966 Shelby GT 350H with an original "T" Pan.  Almost in Ford light blue color!  What could be better! 

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fel-vs13264t/overview/make/ford

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fel-os13260t/overview/make/ford

Check out the four guide pins that hold the pan in place while you button it up.  Really helps with under the car installations!  Now of course a 4 post lift also helps!!

Rob

Hey Rob,
We think alike it seems. As you can see I bought a set but have not put them in place until I get the rocker noise down. Surprisingly the 35 year old gaskets are still holding their own.
On my "new" engine that is someday in the future I'll keep the same type gasket in mind as I was going to change out the oil pan on the new engine from the Shelby aluminum pan to something from this, or another company since I wanted to do more open track events and figured I needed a pan with better baffling. http://aviaid.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/ws_oilpns_sbf.html
As far as hardened seats that can be done if the heads ever have to come off along with the other suggestions as I still drive the car quite often.
Clarence




* gaskets.jpg (47.02 KB, 800x800 - viewed 24 times.)
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robert campbell
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« Reply #32 on: April 18, 2017, 08:16:08 PM »

As far as hardened seats go I am with Randy on this one.  In fact hardened seats have been known to come loose and cause problems.  IMO the concern over the lack of lead cushioning was over blown early on and not a huge factor in seldom driven cars or cars with few miles on them.  Trailer Life did a study way back in the middle 70's when unleaded gas was just starting.  They found that a trailer pulling truck or a Motorhome would benefit form hardened seats, but everyday cars did not see the abuse to warrant them.  Below is an article on vintage cars and unleaded gas.  I suppose when you are racing you could add a lead additive, but it all seems to be a bit overblown in my mind.

Rob

https://www.bellperformance.com/blog/bid/127758/Unleaded-gasoline-and-classic-cars-A-mechanic-s-viewpoint

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zray
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« Reply #33 on: April 18, 2017, 09:49:36 PM »

As far as hardened seats go I am with Randy on this one.  In fact hardened seats have been known to come loose and cause problems……"

they will come loose……  if the machinist doesn't know his a** from a hole in the ground.

Brooks Elliot  is one cylinder head authority that you'll never have to worry about.  I've taken all types of cylinder heads to him for restoration and modifications. If only everyone had his attention to detail and perfection, the world would be a beautiful place indeed

http://austincylinderhead.com

Z


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robert campbell
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« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2017, 11:12:54 AM »

Z,
Impressive website and this company looks to be top cabin.  I will look for the Newen Contour in my local area shops.  You must live in the Dallas area?  I have a relative in Austin!

Rob

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zray
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« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2017, 11:48:08 AM »

I was in Austin from '92 to 2012. Now living in my little Oklahoma hometown & retired, mostly, except for the Boss 302 type crossmembers  I manufacture.

Brooks has done the cylinder heads of numerous Shelby's (including mine), Boss 302's, etc. that reside in the Auston areal, not to mention the exotic Europeans mentioned in his website, vintage cars and motorcycles of every type. He's a very well rounded no BS guy. Sadly, there's only one of him. And he's always  pretty backed up.

Z

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gt350hr
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« Reply #36 on: April 19, 2017, 12:17:32 PM »

  The whole hardened seat thing flared up long ago with "new" engines around '72-74. The good thing about a '65-67 hi po head is it's USED and was used during the leaded days. Natural engine operation "pounds" the valve against the seat and "work hardens" it. Plus this happened with leaded fuel as I mentioned. Because of this valve seat recession common to "other" cylinder heads is relatively uncommon on HiPo heads. "Some" shops do it just to make more money ( sadly) "I" have yet to see a 289HP head that suffers/ suffered from valve seat recession. Others may have. Some call it insurance , I call it a waste of money (PURELY based on "MY" experience).
      Randy

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owner 6S477 HERTZ White w/Blue stripes-1of18-since 1974. OVER 3,500 drag strip runs made in it since then. My candidate for the "worlds Most drag raced Shelby" More added all the time.
robert campbell
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« Reply #37 on: April 19, 2017, 03:59:57 PM »

I do like Z's shop, and the thought process with the Newen machine, but I am with Randy on the valve seats.  The Hipo that I just sold had a set of DOOE Windsor castings with 1.94 and 1.60 valves with massive exhaust porting and pocket porting in the combustion chamber.  They were completed in around 1986.  In 1991 I went to the Weber intake and a solid roller cam and they were again ported and flowed at Bliss Enterprises.  This was coupled to the 12.5 pop ups and I was nearing the .120 mark on the exhaust valve to piston clearance due to head decking.  This required much stronger valve springs than normal.   Can't remember the seat pressure, but I could look it up.  The cool thing with Weber's is you can actually hear the intake valve "slapping" closed at certain low RPM's. These heads never received hardened seats.  It ran on 92 unleaded all these years with no additives.  Please do not ask me how many dollars were in this set of ancient iron heads.....

This engine is still running today with Crane Gold roller rockers and I would adjust them every two years.  Granted it only saw about 10k miles over this 27 years, but it regularly saw 7,500 RPM.  The valves were seldom out of adjustment at all.  I did it just because it is good maintenance.

Rob   

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gt350hr
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« Reply #38 on: April 20, 2017, 07:17:22 AM »

     Today's fuel isn't the same formulation as '74 when the whole seat recession thing was happening. It rarely happens these days and won't do it on a "sunny day only" car. How many just do it because "I heard it on the internet"?

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owner 6S477 HERTZ White w/Blue stripes-1of18-since 1974. OVER 3,500 drag strip runs made in it since then. My candidate for the "worlds Most drag raced Shelby" More added all the time.
PBF
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« Reply #39 on: April 20, 2017, 08:42:13 AM »

     For what it's worth; I agree that the installation of the hardened seats should not be installed carte blanche, but rather be addressed on the individual assessment in each scenario at hand.

                                                                                                     idea

     Also note, that the O.E.M. never set forth an intention within the casting for the purpose of this process. So, be aware, that any time such is practiced, the casting may prove to be unsuitable for such repair, and become unsalvageable (within reason)! The response from the offending (may not be their fault) repair shop will be "Oh Well"; no matter how unique, numbers-matching, or rare the casting may have been.
                                                                             Rip


     Scott.

« Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 08:46:37 AM by PBF » Logged
robert campbell
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« Reply #40 on: April 20, 2017, 09:19:11 AM »

Back in the day, a truck pulling a trailer, a Motorhome, or a boat with an automobile engine would good candidates for hardened exhaust seat.  Boats and trucks are really pulling hard all the time.  Boats are going uphill any time they move at speed.  Sunny day cars?  Most hardly see 4,000 rpm now a days.  And maybe 1,000 miles a year.

Rob

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Don Johnston
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« Reply #41 on: April 20, 2017, 02:15:22 PM »

What about if your running a Paxton supercharger? 

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gt350hr
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« Reply #42 on: April 20, 2017, 02:36:54 PM »

   The blower has no effect on valve seat migration. Much of the "hoopla" happened in '74 when no one offered "induction hardened" seats. Plus as I mentioned the "first" unleaded blends were responsible for the problem as well. Newer blends are much less problematic.

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owner 6S477 HERTZ White w/Blue stripes-1of18-since 1974. OVER 3,500 drag strip runs made in it since then. My candidate for the "worlds Most drag raced Shelby" More added all the time.
cobradad
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And the garage space to put them in....


« Reply #43 on: April 22, 2017, 05:15:46 PM »

    Clarence,
         Your block is FAR from "used up". Now days replacement pistons can be made in ANY size , +.001, .031,.032 etc. Techcraft is in Redwood City and Doug can do a great job for you . Or take Robert up on his generous offer. I see no reason to replace the block with one from Dart for a 340hp build. BTW you can go as tight as .016 on the intake rockers. The valve see less heat and don't expand as much as the exhaust valves do. Keep the exhaust at .018.
    Randy
Hey Randy,
I tried looking up TechCraft and could not find anything. No web page or yelp review. Do you have anything more on the shop? I think I am in need of an engine rebuild sooner than expected.
To everyone else, thanks for all the help and advise.
Recap: I adjusted the valves last week, drove the car around to get it up to temp and still heard the rocker noise as mentioned.
I took the valve covers off and as you can see in one of the pictures there is now water in the oil. It was not there last week.  Head knock
Also is a picture of one of the rocker arms and the top of one of the valve stems. They are a pretty good representation of all the others.
None of the valve stems show any mushrooming or even enough of an edge to catch with a finger nail.
I'm not sure how to judge the wear on the rocker arm.
In any case it looks like the car is not going anywhere anytime soon.
Thanks again. All advise, insight is always appreciated.
BTW, anyone have the whites from 3 or 4 eggs?
Clarence



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* rocker (1280x1280).jpg (201.32 KB, 800x800 - viewed 50 times.)

* valve_stem (1280x1280).jpg (167.64 KB, 800x800 - viewed 55 times.)
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robert campbell
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« Reply #44 on: April 22, 2017, 10:32:58 PM »

Clarence,
From the one picture the rocker and the valve tip look "ok".  As that that can be seen from one picture of one valve tip and one rocker.

Water in the oil will reduce its viscosity and its cushioning ability to function as a wear agent.  Now the mystery is where it is getting into the oil?  Normally, a blown head gasket.  But, not always.  You have a hugely valuable engine that needs to get to the bottom of this ASAP. If it was mine, I would pull it immediately and get it disassembled down to the block to discern the source.  Each engine piece carefully inspected.

Any more driving will result in chocolate milkshake pouring out of the valve covers!! 

Rob

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